Episode 19 – Course Group Questions

dylan and corey from fuel your photos

Live Q+A with members of our SEO Course Group

We have monthly Q+A calls with our SEO course members and decided to record this call for our podcast! We hope they’re helpful for you as well. 

Course Member Questions:

Question 1: Mike Glatzer – How to better optimize his “What to do when it Rains” article to fit more broad intent that is getting traffic.

Question 2: Amelia Shahan – “I’ve been told that longer articles are always better, what are your thoughts?”

Question 3: Shannon Durazo – “I have my site on Cloudways and they have a performance plugin called Breeze, how does it compare with WP Rocket?”

Question 4: Stacy Garfield – “I just posted a blog post and it got massive traffic from Google Discover. What is Google Discover and how can we optimize for it?”

Question 5: Geoff Wilkings – “I have no idea about AMP, but would love your thoughts on this article.”

Question 6: Travis Haughton – “I have this article ranking for my main homepage term, how should I handle this situation?”

Question 7: Max Bittle – “We have quite a few pages that rank really well for wedding venues that are now closed, what should we do?”

Question 8: Malachi Lewis – “I’ve found opportunities for queries that involve full-size wedding venues that I don’t shoot at, should I still create content to target these topics?”

Question 9: Malachi Lewis – “What tips do you have for getting backlinks to specific blog posts and what advice would you give to improve the ranking of a blog post/page that you feel is already the most informative and unique?”

Welcome to episode 19 of the SEO for photographers podcast. Today, it's a special episode. You've got your boys, Dylan and Corey here, but also we're joined by some members from our course community. And we're going to be doing a Q and a format today. So some people will be asking their question live, and then we'll go ahead and answer that.

And then we have some other recorded questions from our course group that we're going to be answering here on today's episode. You ready for this? Dylan? I'm super excited. It's going to be fun. All right. So why don't we just jump right in? We've got at least a few people here ready to ask their questions.

So you have anything else you want to say before we jump into the questions, Dylan? Oh, I'm I'm pumped. Let's get to the straight to the Q and a. All right. Cool. Mike, why don't let you go first. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So question is, I wrote a blog post. Six months ago, ish. Talking about what to do, if it rains on your photo shoot.

Okay. I've already gone through the course, so hopefully I set it up. Right. And after doing my six month check, I've noticed that most of my traffic is coming from people asking what should I do in Atlanta if it rains. So it's completely missing the content of the photo shoot part because I have the intersection of, okay, if you're going to go through with your photo, shoot here's things to bring umbrellas what to do, embrace it, yada, yada, yada.

And then I got a second section, which is okay, if you want to like ditch and run indoors, here are some suggested locations in Atlanta that we can run to. So my question is, do I rewrite the post and potentially lose all of that traffic because I want the original search tank, you know, maintained or do I just.

Keep it and rip out the what to do if it rains for your photo shoot part. So I keep that traffic and just do a whole new post that's better optimized for, or hopefully better optimized for if it's raining on your photo. Shoot. What do you do? Right. Great question, Dylan. I'll let you jump in first. What are your thoughts?

Well, yeah, I, if it was my site, I would take the original post and completely optimize it for that what's due when it rains in Atlanta because that's where it's already driving the traffic. And see if you can maximize that effect. It's just going to be a great, like top of funnel I've seen when, when sites have page or single pages like that, that perform really well.

You're going to have an easier time ranking for other pages that are more dialed into your actual services and potential clients and all of that stuff. It'd be a great thing to link from. It would be a great thing to attract links itself. And then, like you said, Pull all of the photo shoot related text out and create an additional post that's specifically just here's how to handle the photo shoot when it's raining.

Yeah, I think that's kind of the same direction I was thinking, honestly, why not grab the traffic when you have a significant amount of search volume around this term, what to do when it's raining and make photo shoot do a photo shoot as like one of the subtopics things you could do in the rain.

And then that links to a post that is like specific photo shoot ideas for when it's raining. I think that could be interesting. I think that it kind of shows a couple of things. One Atlanta, local relevance. Right? So in that general article, you're going to be able to mention even more entities.

Now, if you're taking the photo shoot and tent out of it, cause they're going to be things that you would do in Atlanta when it's raining that you wouldn't necessarily do for a photo shoot, go to the aquarium, go to something like that. Right. You might not normally do a photo shoot in the aquarium, but it's a great thing to do whenever it's raining.

And it's an iconic part of downtown Atlanta, right? If you're not mentioning the aquarium somewhere on your site, you're kind of missing a big part of what makes Atlanta famous or maybe it's, you know, world of Coke or whatever it is that are these big things you can do in Atlanta that are indoors that way.

Again, you're building local relevance. And then I think it's really interesting and creative to kind of add this angle. Hey, you could even do a photo shoot in the rain intentionally. Like maybe you're looking for rain, but even if you're not, it shows that you as a photographer are not afraid of anything you're prepared for everything.

In fact, you're so prepared for if it rains, you intentionally seek out the rain sometimes because you think it's got a dramatic effect or it creates opportunities that otherwise would never exist in a photo shoot. So taking that angle, I think allows you to you know, capitalize on the traffic that comes from the overall topic, add some new entities, add some new local relevance and still fulfill the user experience that you were going after, which is a resource for, if it's raining on your photo, shoot, here's my backup plans or here's my primary plans or whatever.

So why don't you try that and see where it goes from? There sounds like a plan. Thanks for the help. Yep. All right. Let's move on to the next question. Let's go ahead and go with Emilia. You want to ask your question? I, yes. So I am constantly being told longer is veteran longer is better. Does it really affect Google rankings?

That much? Great question. This is a very classic SEO question that you'll see pretty much in any SEO community article guide, whatever we're going to have to talk about. Article link at some point, there's a lot of different directions. We could go with this done. I'll let you go first again. Cool. Yeah. So I think like Craig alluded to there have been a lot of correlation studies, so.

Not causation, but where they look at, which articles are driving the most clicks and the trend was always like these 2000 to 4,000 word articles would slightly drive more clicks than the thousand word. There have also been a great articles that explain what, how much time did it take to make a four to 10,000 word article to get that many clicks.

And would you have been better off doing 10, 1000 word articles that get slightly less clicks individually, but overall drive more traffic. Those are all great things to read about and like theorize, but I think it all comes back down to finding the right topics that drive relevant traffic, and then thinking about the user intent behind those topics.

And does a 10,000 word article makes sense for a simple question or would a like 50 word, very short article with a quick diagram, be a better fit or something like that. If you keep the user intent in mind, I think that. You quickly stop looking or caring about word count overall. And so that's my current theory is that I, I just, I, I don't even track it or care.

Nice. It's funny because I've actually taken a little bit of a, almost an opposite approach recently where I'm tracking it even more and hearing more about length or at least being more intentional about it. So I've started to kind of break up posts into three categories. You've got your, your first category, which I I'm basically just calling a snippet target.

You're essentially just trying to win a featured snippet. You're looking for specific queries that are looking for a short answer, and then you optimize, you know, the best you can possibly optimize for that answer. And you're intentionally looking for ones that should only take 300 to 500 words, but if you do it exactly right, and give the answer, that's kind of expected.

And solves the problem. Then you can win the featured snippets. So I look for those because we found a few and in experimenting, we were able to write 300 word articles that get three to 5,000 clicks per month from Google, which is mind blowing. If you can find them, I will say for, you know, since this is the SEO for photographers podcast, we find them far less often in the photography space.

That doesn't mean they don't exist. But I will say, especially in like software space where there's like a question about how do you use a feature of software or something like that, where you can give a more concise tutorial. That's really only a few hundred words with a few steps. Those do very well as featured snippets often.

I have seen that often if you format the article correctly, even. Less content will do better for featured snippets. So I I've seen like these bulleted lists or numbered list with one paragraph under each one do very well for these lists type featured snippets, even though it's 500 words versus a 2000 word article, that's not formatted very well where Google couldn't pull out the items as featured snippet bullet points.

And so they don't win the featured snippets. So sometimes shorter is better for specific types of articles, especially when you're targeting a featured snippet. And it doesn't always mean that shorter will win more featured snippets, but keep in mind that Google needs to be able to condense the answer into something like 200 characters to give a featured snippet or into some bullet points to give a featured snippet.

So shorter can sometimes be better. The, the opposite side of that is what I call basically ultimate guides or these really. These are kind of the hero posts that we've talked about on another podcast episode, these are the ones that you are creating a piece of content that is world-class. It is the absolute best result that exists on the internet for a query in general, you can't do that without going into a lot of words.

I mean, generally at least 2000 words, but often when I'm writing these ultimate guides, I get to four or 5,000 words before I even look up. Like they're just really long because I'm going very much in depth. The other benefit to this kind of really long guide is that more words. Usually means you can rank for more long tail queries.

Right? And so you're not just trying to check your performance for one keyword. You're trying to say, can this article ranked for a thousand keywords, are there, you know, are there a thousand different ways that people ask this? And by the way, Google says that approximately 18 to 20% of all queries every day are unique and never seen before on Google.

So if you don't think there's a thousand ways to ask the same question, there's probably a million ways to ask the same question. And so can this article rank for every variation of a way that someone would possibly search for this topic? Often, what you'll see is that even I was just looking at keyword research with someone yesterday and they were saying, well, this topic, I think it was Seattle elopement photographer.

It says that there's no volume or very, very little volume. Why is that? And we looked to see, and SEMrush was saying, you know, there's 170 searches per month for this term. But then we looked at the page that was ranking number one for Seattle local photographer. And it was driving something like 2000 clicks per month, according to SEMrush for the topic of elopements in Seattle.

And so the idea is yes, for that one keyword, there was low volume, but because it was extensive or because it was authoritative or whatever, it was able to rank for lots of different things and therefore drive significantly more traffic than any one keyword could ever hold. So that's one of the benefits of this long content idea is not that one content ranks better, period.

It's just that long content gives more opportunities to rank for more intense, for more tangents for more related topics. In general. Now you could always break it up into multiple pieces, et cetera, et cetera. And I will say by my last scatter where I'll make this one really quick, is it kind of in the middle?

Right? You've got these posts that are something like a thousand to 1500 words. They answer a question. Well, they require more than 300 words like the featured snippet target. Then you need to get, give some background or some setup or whatever, but they're not like these ultimate guides. Maybe they're just my answer to this question or my particular thoughts on this question or my angle that I'm coming at this from.

And it really only took a thousand words or 1500 words. And often those will still rank very well. You can drive lots of traffic, especially when you're finding that there's opportunity. That means search volume. And that there's low competition. I mean, it's not very many people are answering this at all.

It doesn't require me to create something. World-class it just requires me to answer the question. That's kind of the middle of the road content that I like to write, but I will say that was a really long answer to say what Dylan said much shorter is that there's correlations between content length and performance in search engines, but really the thing you need to be paying attention to is how can I answer this as well as possible and make it as easy as possible for people to find what they're looking for as fast as possible.

So sometimes that means shortening it. Sometimes that means formatting. Sometimes that means adding more words so that you can give them more of what they're looking for and give them more depth. It just depends on the scenario. So hopefully that's at least helpful in thinking about this. Yeah, that's, that's kind of my answer.

Any more thoughts on that after I talked for 10 minutes still? Yeah, I think you, you wrapped it up really well. I guess like my one thought is that you mentioned sometimes shorter is better and. I do think that that's often the case where I've seen people try to hit word lengths and I'm like, there's 200 words of actual quality content on this page.

And there's a thousand words of fluff. And if I was a user, I would be lost in this, this post, but sometimes just cutting out all of the craft will really bring up the overall quality. Yeah. And I've said this probably 10 times in the past few months, but a big focus of mine right now is formatic. It is just how can I format posts so that if you were skimming it, you would, it would be hard for you to miss the reason that you came.

That's usually done with large headings, with bullets, with numbered lists, with call-out boxes, with bolding, with, you know, Italax font choice. All of these things are part of formatting tables columns, all of that goes into how can we take. A large piece of content and break it down into its pieces that people can't miss.

They're looking for different things. Whenever they come, everyone's going to have a slightly different mindset when they hit your piece of content. How can I make sure that it would be impossible for them to miss the thing that they came for? If they scrolled this really fast? That's the ultimate goal of formatting in my opinion.

Cool. Cool. All right. Let's let's move on to the next question. Shannon, do you want to go, do you have a question you want to ask? So I'm pretty new to the class. Just going through the basics of it now. So implementing the things on my site and one of the things I did make sure to set everything up on cloud ways and cadence and all of the suggestions cloud-based comes with breeze.

What are the benefits of switching to WP rocket instead of using what cloud ways already has native in it? Yeah, that's an awesome question. In fact, it's one that I had recently, cause I wasn't sure originally to give some background breeze was a fork of WP rocket. So a fork is if something exists as open-source software, you can take it in its current state and break it into your own version as your own piece of software and then kind of build on it from there and modify it from there.

So Breece started as a fork of WP rocket, but that was probably almost two years ago or something. And since then, not only has WP rocket added new features and functionality, but breeze has. Taken away. Some of the original features and functionality that they started with. And the idea is that breeze is created to work inherently well with the caching and server settings already in existence on cloud ways.

There's some really tricky things that go into theirs. They use varnish by default. And so creating a no w rocket can work fine with varnish and they've, since the fork they've set it so that it automatically detects it I'll even have a message now. And it'll say, Oh, you're using cloud ways. We've enabled varnish.

Whatever the, the option is. They do it automatically in the beginning when they first forked it, it didn't do that. So a lot of people were running into issues where they would install Dewey, rocket and not configure it correctly. And it would crash their sites. And so D and then cloud has wanted to have something where they could be like, we're going to at least give you.

The default settings that we'll work with our server and give you some of the benefit of this, so that if nothing else you've at least got this kind of front end caching, too, that pairs well with our server side caching and that's, that's at least default for you now, Dylan is the expert on this. So tell us a little bit more about like, what, what can you do further with WP rocket and why would you install that instead of breeze?

Yeah, I mean, the features that I'm thinking off the top of my head would be preloading breeze doesn't offer I'm looking through breezes stuff right now. I don't think it does. Cause I was trying to figure out how to add that script and the cadence. And I'm like, there's gotta be an easier way to do this, but I'm going to ask.

Yeah. So pre-loading of like fonts, things like that are pretty easy to do with WP rocket the new delaying of JavaScript. So tracking scripts and typical Like Hotjar stuff, stuff like that is easier with WP rocket. I'm looking through breeze. I will just tell you from my yeah, 30 rocket, it has a much better graphical user interface than, than breeze.

Breeze has very stripped down. It's just like one or two panels or something. And it's got like, here are your options and there's some good default options, which makes it easy. Exactly. So as like a, a standard, I don't have caching, I don't know what to do with caching. I don't want to pay for an extra plugin.

This is a great starting point. And I would say enable it. And you'll probably get a decent amount of benefit from it. If you're an advanced user, if you want to create specific page rules, if you want to you know, enable more advanced ordering of the way that things are loaded or exclusions for the way that things are loaded, I think w rocket's gonna make that kind of granular.

W detail much easier. Well, in other words, get WP rocket and go through Dylan's video on how to set it up correctly. Not a bad idea. Okay. And for those of you listening to the podcast, that is a course video, Dylan has made about specifically what to, what settings to use and WP rocket to get the most benefit.

Yeah. Cool. Anything else you wanted to add to that? Dylan? Not much. I was just looking through breeze. I think it looks like the biggest help that a lot of people might have is that WP rocket has the ability to do the the load, just the CSS needed to print, like the, or to render the initial viewport, and then everything else is set to load after that.

That's a really big, big help for page speed, but yeah, I don't know. That's pretty advanced. Yeah, exactly. And one, but one more thing to think about here is that WP rocket is a company. I mean, it's, it's premium software. And so their company is fully focused on continuous development of best practices with page caching and they will, they have the revenue to do that because they are charging for their plugin.

Whereas I think the cloud way, his team was really just like, Ooh, let's stop these errors and give people a very basic set of options that will just get them by. And I think that, that if you're looking for future-proofing to Iraq, it's certainly going to be more they'll always be developing and trying to keep up with best practices.

Whereas breeze will most likely have much less development time because they don't really have a revenue model around it. And it will just be like, well, here's the basics. That's good enough. So anyway, good starting point. Yep. All right. Let's go on to the next question. Stacy has a question, right?

Stacy, are you here? Yes, I am good morning or afternoon. My question is about the Google search console. I just last week I had an option under performance called discover show up, and then I posted a blog on Saturday and it got under that discovered and got like 3000 impressions almost immediately.

So I have a two-fold question. What is discover and why did it posting a blog immediately get all these impressions for ones, you know, I've had some out there that don't even have anything close to that. So thank you. Awesome. Yes, that's a fun topic, honestly. I'm just going to be right up front, straight up honest.

I don't know, nearly as much about discover as I would like to know. Yeah it's, it's kind of a mystery. So I maybe almost a year and a half ago, I went to an event at Google and someone had brought up discover and the, the official Google engineers who were there to answer questions were very standoffish about it.

They were like, don't try to optimize for discover. It's not made for that. And of course that's what Google would say about pretty much anything. They don't want people going out of their way to try to manipulate their systems. Right. But that was still very, very early days. It's very hard to predict what discovery is doing.

I do believe that Google is intentionally what's the word obfuscating, like they're trying to make it confusing. What to gets into discover. It needs to have an element of randomness for it to have its magic. I think that's important real quick. I'll give a brief overview of what discover is. And then Dylan, I want to hear your thoughts too on like.

What could we be looking at? Or how could we start tracking? What's going on to discover discover is Google's basically their articles, suggestion engine that is built into any Android device. If you're using something like I have a Google pixel, if I swipe all the way to the left, I will get a screen that will basically be, you might be interested in these articles and it will have articles and sometimes videos, but it's mostly text-based articles that they're suggesting to me, if you're not using Android, like you're on an iPhone, it will be if you have the actual Google app.

So I know there's a lot of different apps related to Google, but there's a Google search app. It will show up. Underneath the search bar. I don't remember if you go in like Safari or Chrome, if they sometimes show I think if you're logged in like permanently logged in through a browser, it may show discover articles underneath the search bar in a browser, but I'm not a hundred percent sure on that either way.

It's Google's way of suggesting articles. It's a lot more like a YouTube suggestion engine than a regular search algorithm. So the search algorithms are going to prioritize. What is the query? What is the intent behind the query? How can we surface the best answer? That is a very someone is actively searching for something and we're giving them what they intended to find.

Whereas discover is more about this, like serendipitous Press presentation of things that you probably didn't even know you were looking for. That's the idea behind it. And it's based heavily on user activity. So whatever I've been browsing around the web, and I've noticed that mine is very heavily tied into third party things as well.

It's not just, what are you searching on on Google and YouTube? Those tie in very heavy, but also location-based things. So where am I, where am I going on on Google maps? They're tracking all of your activity as far as where you're checking in, where you're stopping, where you're accessing the internet.

So I'll get a lot of local recommendations just based on where I spend my time. And also I get a lot of movie based recommendations based on my Netflix consumption. So obviously Netflix has some integration with Google here where they're partnering on. Sharing data that then gets used in discover.

And I'm sure there are other things. These are just the ones that I've noticed personally, for my discover. It's very heavily based on location browsing history and Netflix consumption. Those are the three that I see the most showing up in my discover. So Dylan, how would we potentially knowing those things?

How do we get into discover? And do you have any tips? This is something I needed to learn more about. Let's say that you've been getting a lot of discovered traffic and it all of a sudden drops, or let's say all of a sudden you get a ton of discover traffic on a specific set of articles or one article.

And you want to repeat that pattern. Is there anything you know, that you can do to try to trigger that a little bit Googled, just updated their guidelines on discover and a few things that they mentioned? It, I mean, it. They pretty much, they don't want you to do clickbait. So they're, they're, they're trying to avoid content that uses like click baity terms in their titles or makes people read 3000 words to finally find the answer at the bottom, things like that.

So they're trying to do that algorithm algorithmically. They want clear dates on the content, which is interesting, by-lines, which is also most photographers kind of sometimes skip. They also want high quality images is like one of the things that a lot of people pulled off is like, that's interesting.

They want at least 1200 pixel wide images. Otherwise they're not going to show the image and discover. And so I think amp is doing a good thing with that. Yost is also making sure that they, if you set your featured image, Yost will link to the full-sized version in structured data. So it can pull that But from your, your question on, like, if you lost discover traffic or if you want to continue building discovered traffic Google's looking for evergreen content.

So continue building out. Like if, if you notice that your elopement guide for a California or something is getting discovered traffic, maybe it's time to just continue that series and do an allotment guide for another nearby state or national park or something else. They're also looking for continued timely articles on trending topics.

And so I think if I, if I noticed that my site was being trusted for discovered traffic or that me as an author, if, if I'm being trusted for discover traffic, maybe it's time to look at like what's trending in the photography world this week or this month. Can I write an up-to-date article on it and share that and see if that takes off?

Because we have worked with a few photographers that had surprising amounts of discovered traffic. One of them whose traffic dropped off when they did a site migration. And I think it might be that whole like timeliness aspect where maybe Google needs to see continued new content. It might've been a trust signal that was lost during the migration where they, they were unable to trust the brand or the site.

Maybe they lost by-lines maybe they took out dates of their content and who knows, but those are the things I'd start looking at, man. W we'd definitely to that in the show notes, if we can, the guidelines are a study that you are talking about here. While we're on this topics, I think it's a good one.

Let's just dig into it a little bit more. And maybe this would be a whole episode at some point, Dylan, but especially after I'd like to read that. And then I could probably do some sort of analysis of my discover articles for a couple of weeks. If I can just like take screenshots and write down what it is, I'll be able to find patterns a bit more.

That could be really fun, updated. Episode at some point in the future. I'm just going to look at my discover right now, and I will give you some of the things that are showing up. So first article is Tesla. Cars can be bought in Bitcoin and Dylan knows why that one's showing up. We've been having lots of random conversations about Tesla and Bitcoin basics of link building to boost your SEO.

Now here's another, not that, but another interesting thing right underneath that is stories. I was just telling Dylan yesterday that I never sees stories, web stories in the wild, and here they are. And my discover the next day. So we're finding a place now that stories are starting to surface naturally, which is inside of discover.

If you don't know about stories, it is something that started off as part of amp and then broke off as a separate component that you can build stories just like you would on. Instagram, or I guess it's a Snapchat, but these stories that have kind of taken over every platform, you can now build them as long-term evergreen stories as part of your website.

So there's a separate plugin now for WordPress that you can use to build these stories and then you can release them on different topics. Dylan, just share with me a really interesting article about it was a case study of increasing traffic by 500% with stories. So I would say for photographers, that's probably not going to be the case often, but if I could see, we're trying to, to attack this discover traffic, that might be a great way to break into it, to see it might be kind of a way to put out bite sized content to get an idea of what performs well for you inside of discover.

I have stuff about Disney world, which my wife and I are always interested in looking at Disney world news and going there. Can you use discord for business? So here's a category inside of discover. In case you missed it, they'll show up above it in, in Tallix. It says, in case you missed it. And these are typically this one was posted 11 months ago.

Almost always. When I see these they're between eight and 18 months old. And it's the idea that this is a great piece of content on a topic you're interested in. We would even say Google, we would even say that it is one of the most authoritative and popular pieces of content that we've ever found for this particular topic.

We know you're interested in that topic. So in case you missed it, here's that so these are, if you, if you're familiar with YouTube at all YouTube mindset is going to help you a lot with understanding, discover, because it's very similar. If you're, if you use YouTube and you're logged in at the very top, you should see these little gray bubbles that are basically the topics that you, you interact with.

The most, that kind of information is also being stored here in discover. Where they know, what topics should you interact with? And then they're surfacing articles from authorities on those topics or from you know, authoritative information about those topics. Hopefully that makes sense. There's ads.

Now a fun side note is you can manually add those topics to your discover if you'd like, so you can, you can follow individual authors or sites, or you can follow like photography or something, which I'm, I'm really excited about this potential with discover, especially since I'm an Android user and it's kind of built into my phone.

I don't know what they're going to do about Apple or if it will ever really take off there, but I never see it exactly. But I mean, I always loved Facebook because I'm the kind of person who likes to consume content. I don't like Instagram because it's just pictures and like a few thoughts or something.

And I like longer content. So I guess Twitter would be another thing I like, but I also like the more. Personalized aspect of Facebook. So I feel like this is kind of Google's reach into that sort of recommendation engine of, like you said, maybe you can follow and follow topics and things like that. This was a newsfeed essentially, but based mostly in articles, I did just see a YouTube video show up in mind and other ad discover more so than it has, like the topics as bubbles.

I have outdoor recreation, cryptocurrency, photography, drawing, personal finance parenting, and men it's like hitting it head on. It's surprising how well they know you based on your user experience. Again, here's how many episodes are in Ozark season four. They know that I've watched every season of Ozark.

And they've want to say here's something interesting about that. So yes, that's the idea behind to discover as far as how to optimize better for it? I think it's. Knowing your topic, knowing the big cornerstone pieces of content that you need to cover around your topic, knowing your audience and building an audience, which goes along with building authority, which is what Dylan was saying.

You know, your byline shows your authority. That's another topic that I feel like an infant on when it comes to SEO is how is Google attributing authority to a person. And, and where does that come from? What metrics are they looking at to really say, this author is authoritative, where do they store it?

Is it associated with your Google account? It's not like Google my business. Like it would be as an entity necessarily. So there's a lot of interesting things to discover. I think it's all, I mean, it's obviously all knowledge graph, but they, they had people implementing the author, structured data at first and then they're like, Hey, don't do that anymore.

We're good at with it. Yeah. We can figure this out on our own. So just let us. Do that. And that's where they're at now, where, and I, I don't know how often it's accurate or inaccurate. I was listening to an interesting podcast this weekend, where there were two authors that had the exact same name and they were talking about like how they get congratulated for each other's books and press can Google really figure that out.

I maybe, I don't know. Yeah. I'm really, really curious about that. Yeah. Especially that brings up another interesting point that I'd love to take into more, how much of the knowledge graph is hidden. In other words, Google knows that there's an entity here, but it's never surfaced. The, the users never see it.

If you search for my name, you will not. You'll see a hockey player on the knowledge graph. You won't see me on the knowledge graph. Yeah. However, Google knows who I am, because if you search Corey Potter photographer, You get my ablaze photography website, you get fuel your photos. They know that I'm associated with these other properties.

They have to be graphing it to the knowledge graph, but I'm a hidden node or something. So I wonder how many other hidden nodes there are on the knowledge graph that we never get to see. Yeah. Deep questions podcast. Thanks. Cool. We have Angela, do you have a question I wanted to ask if, so, go ahead and unmute yourself and you're gonna ask and then Dylan, we have.

Okay. A couple other questions from our group members. I think most of them were here or there maybe one or two others. Yeah, we have, we have quite a few. How much, okay. How much time do we have? We are at around 36 minutes. So, you know, maybe something like 15 minutes more if we, we have it. Well we have a question from Jeff workings amp.

I would love everyone's thoughts on this article. I know many have worked on amp and by the way, I have no idea. There was a big Google update in may crime, Dylan, Corey, Dylan. I'm sure you're on top of this. What are your thoughts? I personally have stayed with flow themes. Get my site up to a GT metrics.

Grade B could make it faster, but I want to maintain image quality. That's the only reason why I've decided to forfeit an, a rating. And then he links to an article on live food.com. The end of amp Corey and I both read this article yesterday. I had like. 10 people send it to me and DMS. My site's currently amp.

Cory has a few amp sites and I think we're both proponents of amp. Sort of to an extent amp amp is a framework that allows us to quickly and easily get the performance we want out of WordPress site without having to like jump to extremes with server set up and do any like hard stuff on our own. It also allows us to have our sites be cached from Google server and serve instantly from their search results.

So if you've ever clicked my site from Google search results, you might've noticed it loads literally instantly. So there are a lot of benefits to amp. It also makes your life a little bit. Hectic and trying to build a WordPress site, but in my perspective, it wasn't that terribly difficult. And so I, I went through with it.

What are your thoughts on this whole issue? Oh man. It's, it's deep. This really could be a whole podcast episode. The problem is I could rant about amp for an hour. And unfortunately, a lot of the thoughts that I would say about amp would sound infantile to someone who's an expert on amp. It's sort of like when I ramble about Bitcoin to someone like Dylan, who really knows about Bitcoin and I've actually got some interesting ideas, but they're probably just wrong.

I would say that's probably going to be the case with amp to some extent, but I will tell you this, my, my perspective on amp comes from this idea that there's a problem and I'm a big creative problem solver. There's a problem. Google recognized it as a problem that they need to own. And they introduced an idea to solve that problem, a framework to solve that problem.

And they said, let's work on this together. And they put it out there as an open source project. And many big companies came together and said, yep, you're right. This is a problem we need to solve it. Let's work on it together in that, in that context, amp is a beautiful thing. It is a community driven project that has the end goal of improving the internet.

The way that we create sites or the way that we create data presentation it's, it's being changed. And I think that amp to some extent has served its purpose in that, that they created this major conversation with major players. They brought them all to the table and they said, how do we solve this?

What. Are the actual problems and what would it look like? What are the goal outcomes to fix this problem? And they were able to outline that and create a framework that says this solves all those. If you use this framework, we'll be improving everything that w that's great. That's an amazing thing. So hearing it from the people at Google at that time, same event where I went, one of the guys who's like at the head of, if this was like, listen, we see amp as an Outre stick effort.

Like we are not trying to profit from it. We are not trying to dominate the internet, take over all of your servers and, and control everything. We're trying to improve your experience. The problem that they saw was we, as Google are offering a product, it is search. Whenever someone uses our product, part of the process is clicking something in search and.

Opening a result that is still our product all the way up until they are on your site. It's our product. And if that part of the experience of opening a result is a bad one. That's on us because we served a page that resulted in a bad experience. And so they said, how could we create an experience, create a framework that allows that to always be a good experience.

We know that if they're using this framework, they at least can't have problems, a, B and C, because they would always have to be solved to, to be included inside this framework. And that was the idea of amp. The problem is sorry. I'm ranting. I sold Jack today. The problem is it became. A monopolistic issue.

First of all, developers hate amp because they have to use the specific framework I actually had our friend David recently convert something from regular JavaScript over to amp script or whatever, and he hated the process. He's like, this is stupid. This is a dumb way of doing this because I can do it much more efficiently my way.

Sure. I get it. I get it. But the idea is it's trying to fit it in a container that applies across the board to anything. Right. Plus he actually cares about performance and would have done it correctly. Whereas most developers don't and wouldn't have yes. And so the issue, especially he mentioned this in that LeFou article or whatever one of the main reasons that amp was able to be adopted is because Google made stories or top stories and a few other things, including discover by the way, discover wasn't amp exclusive, but it's very heavily.

Amp favored top stories, how you have to have amp to show up in the stories carousel. So some people said some big publishers were talking like, you know, wall street, journal USA today. Other international news organizations said Google, you can't tell us how we have to present our data. We have control over that.

That is our decision. And whenever we give it to you and your format, it's screwing with our analytics is screwing with our logged in paywall thingamajigger is whatever. Anyway, there's, there's all these reasons why these publishers were saying amp is not the solution. We understand what you're trying to do.

And we have where you're forcing us to do it because we won't get the traffic. And therefore we won't get the revenue if we don't follow your model. And so they sued them. They said, you can't do this. It's not legal. And so they, they basically won or they settled and said, Google said, fine, fine, fine, fine.

We won't require that you be amped, but we're going to take all the standards of amp and we're going to boil them into another framework, which is kind of where core web vitals came from. So you have at least three metrics in Quora vitals that have to be met for you to essentially qualify for the same thing that you would qualify for out of the box with amp.

And now that's kind of where we are. It's like this guy was saying, it's dead because now these publishers won't be forced to use the amp and no one will need it anymore. And therefore no one will ever use amp again, because everybody hates amp, which there's some truth to that. I am curious to see though, like that guy and many others who have said these things, they don't offer alternative solutions.

They're not saying here's how we're going to fix this. Instead of using amp, here's how strict we're going to be to make sure that we get these performance benefits. And it doesn't come with a cache built into Google where they can literally make it instant by pre-loading it, when you do the search, I'm still worried about that.

Like, that's not going to be something that if I develop something that's really, really fast, I still can't put it on Google servers so that they can preload it before they, if someone ever clicks on it. So I don't know. I don't know exactly where amp is going in the future. My thoughts are, I personally don't necessarily love all of amp.

I like the problems that AMT tries to solve. I like the framework that amp has presented, and I'm curious to see more solutions. If, if someone presents better solutions than amp that achieved the same goals as amp, I will be very happy. I'm totally fine with that. Amp is not something where I, I need it to be amp.

I just need it to solve the same problems as an agreed. I hope that I think that, yeah, that wraps that up pretty well. I like getting so nice. Right. All right. We have a question from Travis and it's, I think it's pretty interesting. I'm going to kind of let's see. So he has a post that is how much does a wedding photographer in Chicago cost that after a year is ranking really well.

He has a few featured snippets. It's getting good traffic and it seems to be picking up as people are getting back into the whole wedding planning thing after COVID. But it's cannibalizing his homepage. So he's ranking in about the mid, mid to low twenties, which is his personal best for the term Chicago wedding photographer.

But instead of his homepage, it's this pricing article. Obviously he'd rather see people hitting his homepage. He'd love to hear thoughts. You take it. I ranted for 10 minutes. So your turn. Now my thoughts here are that I think you need to. Take a look at why Google is preferring this pricing page to your homepage.

What information are people looking for when they're searching for wedding photographer that they're able to find on this pricing page that you're currently not displaying on your homepage? Could you create more parody between the two, would you want to put more of this pricing and package information on your homepage or not?

If not, I think I would love having my pricing page rank if it's going to be ranking better than my homepage ever did. If that's still a really great, like I'm trying to think of pages that would convert better than a homepage or any reason I wouldn't decide better than a pricing page or any reason.

I wouldn't want people to just land directly on that. If they're looking for that service and I can't as long as you. Achieve the same, like branding on your pricing page, talking about who you are, why you do your stuff, you're talking about your packages and starting price. I'm sure he links to recent work or portfolio.

That to me sounds like a better experience than landing on a homepage and then deciding where I want to click for a term like that. Yeah, I would, I would just push forward with the pricing page in mind if it was me. I don't see why not. I mean, I guess maybe the big problem that I have there is that it seems like it's probably an entity based search of Chicago wedding photographers is going to heavily rely on knowledge, graph data.

Things that Google has saved about brands and entities, backlinks, authority, reviews not that that's a huge piece of it, but the whole idea is like there's information they know about your entity and it's probably going to be mostly homepages. Will that article ever actually have the potential to be top three positions?

I hesitate to say yes, I'd say maybe it could make it the first page, bottom half maybe, but I don't know that I ever see that article making it to number one. Yeah. So if I agree though, with Dylan, even if I could get positioned five or six, I think with an article like that, I might be able to grab attention with the title and meta-description and get a really high percentage click through rate, even in a lower position.

But I don't know. I don't know if I'd want to put my eggs in a basket that I know can never win. So that is tricky, but I agree with what you're saying. Like, it is a good experience if, if I come to that page and it talks about how much does it cost why does it cost that much? What are some examples of wedding packages that people offer in Chicago where the packages you offer?

I don't know that just a pricing page is going to do it. It's here's an article, isn't it? Or is it an actual price? Yeah. So I'm actually, I'm trying to find it on a site. I did the game. I'd be on his news sites or no, he said his wife it's rank him. Yeah. So I did is I did the search for the term. He listed Chicago wedding photographer and I found his homepage on page four.

So I'm wondering if he's since asking this question, if he's changed his pricing page or Google, just trying to decide between the two. Yeah. He does have pricing and bonus on page now. Do it's a tricky question. I don't know that there's a direct answer here. I think that Dylan actually answered it very well with his, if it's a better user experience and you can get it to rank, sometimes you don't need to switch it to your homepage.

That I think my little caveat there, which is maybe your other pages would never do as well as a homepage could, might. It makes it complicated. But I would just say, you're going to have to experiment and think through if you've got a page ranking, that's not the one you intended, how can you give the same or better experience than you would have on the page you wanted to rank anyway and go from there?

I don't think there's really anything else to say about that. There's not a clear cut. Answer to this. Yeah. Have any other questions? Let's look here. Cool, cool. Cool.

All right. Max middle has a question. We've got some venues that we blogged about that no longer host weddings or have closed any recommendations on what to do with that content. Yeah. Yeah, totally think there's a lot, actually, especially in recent, in the past year. In my, from my perspective, if it's still getting search traffic so I've, I've seen this from venues that have changed ownership and maybe change names.

Maybe they've gone out of business or stopped hosting weddings, but people still see it on Pinterest and want to see if they can get married there, leave the content up and just think about that user experience. So clearly stating this venue has closed. Here's my list of 25 wedding venues that you should check out something like that, or even catering even more to their experience and say, here are the top three that are similar to this venue.

You should check out net. Exactly. Yeah, I like that. I think that's all I do it. Just keep it up and explain what happened and give them next steps. Yep. All right. Good thing is no one else is going to be competing with you, right? Like there's not going to be new people coming in, trying to rank for that venue anymore.

So if you've already got something that's established, you'll be getting that residual traffic from people who don't know they've closed for years. Totally. All right. Let's see if we have another question here.

All right. We had one from Malakai in the group. He's found some easy wins that he could do with SEO, but it would involve creating a venue guide. He only shoots a lope mints and would probably only work out of two or three of these dozen wedding venues. He has no desire to shoot weddings and most of the places are only really built for big weddings.

And they're all one to three hours away in different directions. Should he create that venue guide? We actually answered this in the, in the group with a bulleted list of reasons that I think a total of six, actually. You have any, why don't you go since I've already answered it in the group and tell me what your additional thoughts would be.

I saw that you did the list, but I didn't read yours. So it'll be interesting. From my perspective, this, this comes down to local relevance. Like we talked about in the first question Google doesn't make as big of a distinction between weddings and elopements. As most people think they're practically synonyms.

I have seen that improving a bit, but so for an elopement photographer to provide wedding information on their site, I think that is a benefit. Especially if it's local. So if you're, if you're in a certain part of Colorado or Utah and you have. A list of weddings in that area. You're going to be a resource.

Google's going to trust you more. They're going to see you as an authority. It will help you rank for your elopement related terms that drive you actual business and make you money. And that's my main, my main reason, my secondary reason, which who knows this could provide even more revenue. But when you show wedding venues to people, even as an, a little bit photographer and then maybe sprinkle in a few of your favorite allotment spots, or maybe have a paragraph about these are great wedding venues, I mostly shoot elopements.

If you'd like to learn more about elements, contact me or something like that, you might get some people to reframe their idea of what they're planning and think about eloping and get clients that way I've had that happen in the past. I see no downside. I think that you should. Be, I guess, cognizant of how much time you put into building up this post, don't spend three weeks on it if you're not a wedding photographer.

But I would definitely say it's worth the effort to put together a list, throw in a few photos and get something ranking. Yep. I agree. Completely. Those were some of the reasons that I gave him there. One other really big one, and maybe you said this and I was looking away, but referrals, like just being able to send those out to other wedding photographers who will in turn send you back things that are elopement related that they don't want to do or that where they're already booked.

Yeah. I, this is one of the things I said, whenever you have the inquiries, you have the power to choose, right? So getting your situation may change. Maybe you're not going to do exclusively elopements anymore in a year or. You just need some money. Like I need to do some regular weddings because like, I don't have any appointments booked and I'm going to pay pinch.

Having the options is almost never a bad thing. I think we had some conversation on that thread around like, well, if you're not doing weddings, why would you create wedding content? And it's not, it's not an alignment with your brand. It's going to, you know, give a bad user experience for those people who search for a wedding photographer or who are in the search for a wedding photographer and then find out you don't even do weddings.

So why did they waste their time on your site? I just don't see it. I don't see that. I think it is almost always, you're helping them solve their problem. And you're presenting yourself as an expert and you have the chance to win over their business. You might find that 5% of people who search for wedding venues are actually people who are loping and looking for a suitable place to have their elopement, but they didn't type in elopement locations.

They typed in wedding venues. That's a, that's a large, that could be hundreds of people a year who find your post because they didn't know what to type, and you're still offering the right experience for those people. And again, even if it's thousands of people who come to your site, as long as you're still answering their question, well, they're not going to have this bad taste in their mouth that you don't photograph weddings.

If I search wedding venues and Columbia, South Carolina, I didn't say wedding photographers who photograph those weddings, I'm looking for the venue information and I'm in that person is giving me that information. I am thankful to that person. I've created Goodwill. I am a big believer in karma and like putting out into the universe, what you want to come back to you.

And for me, those are all great reasons to create this kind of content. There's just so many reasons. There's so many reasons to do it. And I think that it doesn't ever. Unless you're misleading people or putting out, you know, if you're, if you're trying to manipulate people into, I have seen people go that direction where it's like, here's the wedding venues and Columbia, but they all suck.

And you should have lope like, like that angle hap I mean, like don't, don't go that far, give them what they're looking for and maybe challenged their thinking in a way that they didn't know they should, you know, they should be challenged. That's a great reason to do that as a moment, photographer real quick, Dylan, I mean, Malika had another question here that was in the actual event for this call, which I think is a really good one.

And maybe we can end on this unless you have another one. That's like, really, we need to fit it in because this is a big topic. Another one that could be a whole episode. We'll try not to make it a whole episode though. W what tips you have for getting backlinks to specific blog posts, especially if it doesn't have any vendors mentioned and also.

What advice would you give, trying to improve the rankings of a blog post or page when you have added as much information as you could think of and feel your post is already the most authoritative or most informative and unique information that other posts don't have. So once you've done everything, you know how to do a, is there anything else you can do to improve?

And B how do you build backlinks, which is kind of one of those. Yeah, totally. So I think you kind of summed it up, like if my on-page and user experience and intent is nailed and the content is perfect, which that's a huge F then you need to look at why, why is Google not trusting this? Why are, why are they showing somebody else?

And I would say that that's probably going to be authority related and that authority is probably going to be backlink related. And so there, then I would be doing both backlink building to my domain just to build my overall domain authority and circling back to his first question specifically backlinks to that internal page.

How you do that, it's going to kind of depend on the content. It's it's an interesting question. If you, if you have a little bit content that has no vendors, I'm trying to think about who is going to be interested in linking to that the list gets pretty short. The photography needs to maybe stand out so you can get featured on an elopement blog.

You might start thinking about like, does this location, is it a national park? Does national park wants more elopements? Do they want to promote that? Also a big question, because I think most national parks are branded with a little bit right now. Yeah, it gets hard. If know it gets it's hard, but at the same time, there's always, always, always an angle.

You probably won't be able to see this. And I know everyone listening to the podcast, won't be able to see it because it's something that I took a picture of yesterday. I was sitting somewhere that had a newspaper. I picked it up and look through it. And I noticed this article. It says X chef changes his menu to furniture.

And the whole angle of this article is just a person with a story about how COVID essentially changed their business or closed down their business. And now they're finding a way to adapt and live a normal life. And in fact, thriving even more than they were before. Awesome news articles and buzz sites and things like that.

That is what they're looking for, stories of and transformation. So how can you spin this information that you have into that kind of story? I'm reading a book right now called story worthy, and it is fascinating. Highly recommend it as just, how do I tell stories that are compelling and that people connect with inherently, if you can get good at that, then getting backlinks becomes much easier because what I would do is I would say you know, I want to offer the kind of transformation that you want your readers to, to have.

And here's an article that provides that, but the article isn't, they're not linking to the article as the story, they're linking to the article as a piece of the story. So they're, they're giving as an example, but the story here might be, I'm trying to make this a little more concrete. You know, let's say that you have a guide to eloping in, in arches, national park or whatever.

And the story might be of a specific couple who did this because they had to, because of their situation or because they wanted to, because of, you know, something that they believe about culture, or they have these values or whatever, and you can use a specific example, whether it could even be fictional for all I care and you can spin this into here's how they did it.

And here's a guide to how you can do it too. That gives them a reason to link to your article potentially. That's a really abstract example, but I would say in general, there's always some angle where you could say why and how could this be valuable to someone. And how do I pitch it in a way that someone who already has an audience would be happy to either share my article or share a story related to my article and reference my article.

So remember that kind of secondary aspect where you've written the article, you've done the hard work of getting something that is like a cornerstone that you want to send people to, but you don't always have to build links by getting people to only link to that article. You could create a separate story.

That's kind of a carrier for your article and get people, the pitch, people that story that just mentioned your article, that's still a link, right? Like that's the peop the part of this process. I think people often miss their thinking. Why would someone link to this? It's not always the full answer.

The answer could be. Why would someone link to something related to this where they would mention this? Yeah. I don't know if I explained that very well, but it's kind of how I like to think about link building in this situation. Yeah, for sure. And I think part of what you're talking about at least like early on in my career, I think a crucial step was to think about the link building earlier on in the creation process.

So I would think about link building while setting up a stylized shoot as, and thinking of how I was going to pitch this to different blogs before I did the shoot. So while I was still planning, rather than doing the stylized shoot and then thinking of, okay, now, now what, how do I get links to this? Like I think it has to be really early on in the process to get the best results.

And so maybe the current shoot that you're trying to get links to. Isn't the easiest target and creating something that's specifically going to be an easier PR sell would be. And a better, better strategy, but yeah, this could be a fun thing we could add into the course group. Sometime we could try to do some sort of brainstorming session around, like, how would I build links to X?

And we'll give lot of people give some specific examples, and then we could maybe brainstorm ways that we could get people point to that because I'm even thinking, like I have this article on my photography blog about the best locations for photo sessions in Columbia. Well, I don't know that I would pitch that as something that we'll want people to link to, but what if I wanted to pitch like this idea that you know, there's, what are the Instagram worthy locations in Columbia?

Maybe we, maybe the idea is that we focus in on one person, who's kind of become this famous Instagrammer in Columbia. And so we kind of highlight them and then. At the very end of it. It could even be, would you want to also create stories like this around Columbia, here are some spots that you should check out and they're kind of very directly related the, the photo locations versus the Instagram where the locations, they should have a lot of crossover.

So, I mean, it's a very, very different angle, but there's always an angle. So I think you need to think like a reporter, like a journalist or whatever, and find out how could I spin this? So that's the one we'll mention it. This just give me a few ideas. I think I'm going to do outreach this week and try to get some examples.

Now we also have, yeah. Playbook. Yeah. I just had like a list of like, almost like pushing it to the extreme of like what funny narratives do I think would actually get press. And I'm like, I think one, like the, in my, my thought process right now is thinking about like, which people are hungriest to share narratives.

And for me, like. The vegan news. People love to share examples of like how veganism is winning. Here's something. So I'm thinking, how can I make an article or a story about how did going vegan make me a better photographer and enrich that. And I'm going to try to pitch that to some people and see if they've they go for it.

I love that thought that you just had of how do I create content that supports someone's narrative, right? So find these different narratives that, that people who are publishers already have, and this is going to be press by the way I've used that example of a newspaper. And I think of that, but even bloggers influencers, whoever, how, how do I enable them to say the things that they've been meaning to say anyway, that, that article that we started, this aren't, we didn't start it off with, but like the thing about amp.

So many people who have sent that to Dylan and I are people who have always been trying to hate amp. They're like, we don't like amp. We don't want to try to comply with amp. And now they're sitting as this amp, it's dead article because it enables their, their narrative. They would totally link to that in their own article about why not use amp or why I don't using app.

It see, look, someone else agrees with me and they link to them as kind of a backup, because that's always the thing. Like if I try to prove something to you, you're going to trust if I give you more sources with other people who agree with me than if I just try to convince you of my own personal opinion.

Yeah. Anyway, that was, I think those are good. I would say maybe one more tip really quick on that same question about like, what do I do whenever I've, I've included every piece of information that I could possibly think of to include go back to formatting. So I mentioned that earlier in the episode here, but.

I think if you can improve the presentation and the user experience one other example that takes it even a step further than formatting is any kind of interactive widgets tools, anything that's unique that you've created. I created an article recently about how much do you tubers make? Well, instead of just doing, I did a whole survey of YouTube income supports and or income reports, and then I rounded them up and came up with averages.

But then I turned all of that data that I collected manually into a calculator and the calculator doesn't just use the same metrics that are industry averages that you can get from any other place that has a calculator. They're my unique numbers that will give you a unique prediction based on what I find in, I found in my study that's you can't find it anywhere else on the internet.

No other calculator will have the same. Data parameters or a formula that my calculator has. And so I think that added something that you, I don't know that there's always a thing like that, but sometimes you'd be surprised at what you could add. I'm even starting to get into, how can I add a notion template to everything that I'm talking about?

How can I and notion template, by the way, I'm just saying, here's a process for doing this thing. Let me give it to you already made. And so that kind of thing can increase a piece pieces, a piece of content value. And I believe at least that Google is using some sort of metrics to determine that user satisfaction as they use a paid.

I don't think it's quite as basic as some people think like time on site or bounce rate or anything like that. I do think that they have some metrics that they're using for was a user satisfied here. Yeah. I did have one outside the box link building. Surprise of the week, I guess. Okay. If you were a startup, what do you think is your best way out of left field way to get new links to your site out of left field?

Like what's the craziest idea you could ever think of? Oh my God. I don't know where I would start coming up with the craziest idea. What about hiring Prince Harry? What, so this, yeah, this, this tech startup hired Prince Harry they've received over. I think I ran it in HS, but like 2000 backlinks in the last day because it hit the press.

And so, and they, they got the title of their startup in the headlines of like CNN and wall street journal. Like, it's so funny because I actually mentioned that to Ashley, that the day they did their little Oprah thing or whatever you know, she was, somebody was talking about it and then I brought it up to her and then she was kind of trying to take the position of all the poor Royal family.

I'm like, come on. They are never, ever going to be hurting for anything, whether they're denounced or they don't have security anymore or whatever they have. They're freaking celebrities, all they have to do is sell themselves and anyone would be happy to hire them, to promote their thing and get all this free publicity.

And they get millions and millions of dollars instantly just by attaching your name to anything. And that's an example, apparently they are. So if you need backlinks, hire celebrity. Yeah. It's funny. Cause I saw this yesterday too. Matthew McConaughey just started a YouTube channel, but it's like really he's shilling himself to this charity that they're fundraising for something in Texas.

I can't remember exactly what it is. That's the start of his Texas governor run could be, could be. Yeah, but the whole thing is like using celebrity to publicize and get buzz is. A real thing and surprisingly approachable in 2021. And there's a lot of different levels of celebrity. It doesn't have to be a Prince Harry slash Matthew McConaughey, a list celebrity.

It could be, you know, a third list, third level celebrity influencer or whatever. Yeah. I mean, to bring it back to photography, photography, or taking photos of semi-famous people is a good way to build backlinks. Definitely done that in the past. Yeah. And I've seen that, like Sam Hurd is a good example of that and he had some of his, like really famous people on headshots on that little serious.

He was doing, you still ranked on the first page of image results for Donald Trump. Exactly. It's crazy. Yup. Cool. All right. Well we are an hour and 12 minutes for this podcast episode, one of our longer episodes, but actually think it was fun. I was worried we weren't gonna have enough questions to make it into an episode, but I think this was interesting if you're listening to the podcast.

This was an exclusive Q and a for our course group, but we try to do a hangout similar to this every single month. Usually we have it a little more interactive. So we go back and forth on questions. We can log in and look at people's analytics. We can look at their most recently published content and give them those few little pointers that will take it to the next level.

If that's something that you're interested in and kind of having a community that supports your SEO efforts, where you can always ask questions and know that you're going to get reliable answers, not only from SEO experts, but also from other people who have more than a basic knowledge, because they have access to the course and they've been able to implement things and see results.

Our course could be a great place for you. We'd love to have you in the community. You can check it out at fuel, your photos.com/seo-course, Dylan. Anything you want to say to wrap it up much? It, thanks for listening to us for over an hour. Awesome. All right. Well, we will see you guys on the next episode.

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